If Carling designed an LAA aircraft?

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Re: If Carling designed an LAA aircraft?

Postby Ian Melville » Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:52 pm

Thanks Colin
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Re: If Carling designed an LAA aircraft?

Postby Ian Melville » Mon May 12, 2014 4:27 pm

Has there been any feedback in response to the magazine article?
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Re: If Carling designed an LAA aircraft?

Postby ColinC » Tue May 13, 2014 10:18 pm

Hi Ian,

I think that we were never going to get lots of people willing to commit time and energy to this, but I am encouraged by the responses so far. Certainly there is enough interest to suggest that the idea shouldn't the abandoned.

I have to admit to having been a bit distracted myself over the last couple of weeks but I think that I need to try and move this along now. I will go through the various comments that I have received and publish a summary.

Regards,

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Re: If Carling designed an LAA aircraft?

Postby Ian Melville » Wed May 14, 2014 6:10 am

Thanks Colin. I will await you deliberations. May be a good idea to do a short newsy bit for the magazine?
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Re: If Carling designed an LAA aircraft?

Postby Brian Hope » Wed May 14, 2014 7:58 am

Hi Ian, Colin and I are in quite regular contact and I will put something in the mag as soon as Colin is ready. June issue goes to press the end of next week.
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Re: If Carling designed an LAA aircraft?

Postby Ian Melville » Wed May 14, 2014 6:31 pm

Cheers Brian
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Re: If Carling designed an LAA aircraft?

Postby achean » Thu May 15, 2014 9:49 am

I feel very remiss that I haven't put my name forward formally... :(

If I can do so here and now please take this posting as my statement of interest. I'm just re-reading the article to glean the relevant email addresses and will be in contact that way too.

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Re: If Carling designed an LAA aircraft?

Postby ColinC » Thu May 15, 2014 9:57 am

Thanks Jon, no need to apologise

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Re: If Carling designed an LAA aircraft?

Postby neilld » Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:57 pm

What's the status of this idea?
How much interest?
Any interesting input?
What's the next step(s)?

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Re: If Carling designed an LAA aircraft?

Postby ColinC » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:12 am

Hi,

thank you for the nudge, the idea is still alive although through the summer I have not had a lot of free time to move anything forward. There are a number of people who have expressed interest though, not lots, but enough to get the ball rolling.

One suggestion was that we first publish a survey to try to gauge the chances of reaching some sort of consensus about a set of requirements. I think that we should do that, but feel that finding a consensus is going to be a sticking point as it is clear we all have different ideas and an engine choice will turn into a big debate as it remains the biggest cost item in most projects.

I'll get together with Brian and get the ball rolling again.

regards,

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Re: If Carling designed an LAA aircraft?

Postby 4535jacks » Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:01 pm

Colin, apologies for resurrecting such an old thread but I would like to voice my opinions on the matter.

Firstly I think that any aircraft designed by an LAA group should not be built to the specification that all of it members want but rather the specification that the non-members want!!

So I think a very light SSDR type aircraft air that is VERY cheap to build is the way to go as this is more likely to attract young people into the LAA. I would punt for the following spec:

Single Seat
~30-40hp Four Stroke Engine
70kt cruise
500fpm RoC
100kg Pilot to suit the 'modern man'
MTOW 300kg (with option to increase)
3 hours endurance
Enclosed or partially enclosed cockpit.
Folding wings
Can fit in a box trailer
Easy construction with maximum use of CNC cut or stack cut parts and off-shelf items such as tube spars. Minimal welding. Electronic .dwg plans for CNC.
Maximuim use of non-aviation parts and materials to avoid 'LAS' costs.
Construction time of less than 250hours.
Cost around £5000 including engine and covering (yes nearly impossible I know!)
Ability to register as Gp A permit Aircraft.

Basically I would like a modern day VP-1!
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Re: If Carling designed an LAA aircraft?

Postby ColinC » Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:29 pm

Hi Gary,

don't apologise, although it is a while since we had any activity on this. The idea is now bumbling around in my head again as I have a late lunch.

I do think that working within the restrictions presented by SSDR could result in an economical flying machine. Just a couple of initial points in what you wrote that I don't agree with.

1) I don't think <250 hours is doable, that would require a very high level of prefabrication from 3rd party sources so becomes expensive and not achievable in your budget unless it is very crude.

2) group A (or whatever we call it now) and SSDR are mutually incompatible, you can fly an SSDR with a SEP and differences training but it doesn't count toward currency/validity. However, I have read intimations that situation might change so perhaps it may work out a cheap way of maintaining a licence.

If I was going to actively pursue this direction, as an exercise, I'd start by looking at the US ultralights that have a proven record (not the more fanciful ones) and see how they fit into the SSDR rules, then see what could be done to check their designs and investigate if their attributes could be transposed into perhaps more modern construction styles and material options.

I'm tempted to say that with SSDR incremental development might be the pragmatic approach, I for one am not an experimenter. On my desk at home I have details of many designs that might fit that bill. From memory I have; the SD-1 and PIK-26 as newer designs through to the Preceptor (and other company's) Pup, J3 Kitten, the Bounsall Prospector and Minimax at the more traditional end of the scale. Of those, the Pup/Kitten are the more conventional and lend themselves to folding wings. The Minimax can be de-rigged but having just put one back together I'm tempted to say that I wouldn't by choice want to do it every time I had a chance of a quick flight.

Anyway, perhaps more later, keep thinking!

Colin

regards

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Re: If Carling designed an LAA aircraft?

Postby 4535jacks » Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:56 pm

The luciole is also a very nice design but difficult to build. I also like the look of the belite aircraft and CM microlights. The debreyer pelican is an interesting design that could possibly be done as SSDR but aerodynamically complex. Also the nestofdragons bird glider is an interesting project.

I agree about the incremental SSDR. My point about transferable to GA is that the aircraft could be such that a simple mod would put the MTOW above 300kg so it could be converted to GA and then the hours count for revalidation and hours building towards a CPL.

I still think that a design which invokes lots of parts that can be CAM cut would save time and simplify construction. It is shame that designers don't send out electronic cad drawings with their designs.
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Re: If Carling designed an LAA aircraft?

Postby Ian Melville » Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:18 am

Gary, they don't publish CAD drawings as they will be circulated like confetti.
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Re: If Carling designed an LAA aircraft?

Postby neilld » Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:36 am

Good to see this idea resurrected.
I pretty much concur with 4535jacks proposal in particular the cost and build time aspects. I am not aware of any kitplanes that have been "designed for manufacture" (see my previous comments years ago)
I don't agree that SSDR & Grp A/SEP are incompatible, there is at least one example of a Streak Shadow operating as SSDR also the MW7 isn't that far away from SSDR.

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