LAA Permit 2018 8.33 Radio

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LAA Permit 2018 8.33 Radio

Postby howell » Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:44 pm

Will an LAA Permit be granted with an aircraft which does not have a 8.33 compliant radio fitted, and if a non compliant old 25 Kgs remains fixed in the aircraft that will need to be disconnected for the purpose of passing the new permit.
One may presume carrying a hand held 8.33 is compliant for a Permit or just state no fix radio.
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Re: LAA Permit 2018 8.33 Radio

Postby Chris Martyr » Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:09 pm

I would have thought that by electrically disconnecting your radio and placarding it as "Inop" would have sufficed. Or better still , remove it completely and blank the panel off. If you make a nice rectangular blanking plate which is removable then it could later be utilised for something you really want.
Many PtF types including myself operate using a handheld Icom type unit , they do the job extremely well and require no other paperwork except the bit in the PtF renewal form which enquires about your radio installation , to which I normally reply "handheld only".
The Ofcom permit for a handheld doesn't tie the radio to the aircraft , it's just for the operator.
I also don't think that it would affect your PtF renewal inspection if you didn't have your handheld radio in the aeroplane at the time , as it's not part of the aeroplanes equipment.

Don't worry mate , I'm in the same predicament as you [ and probably a whole load of others]
My devious plan is to ask "Father Christmas" for an 8.33Khz handheld at Xmas 2017... :D

From a nearly equally confused Chris M.

Edited to add : If your old radio weighs 25kgs [typo ?] then I'd definitely dump it.. :lol:
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Re: LAA Permit 2018 8.33 Radio

Postby howell » Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:26 pm

Thanks Chris really appreciate your feedback.
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Re: LAA Permit 2018 8.33 Radio

Postby Ian Melville » Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:30 pm

I would assume Chris means 25khz

Handhelds are only approved as L3, which IIRC will prevent access to airspace that mandates a radio. Other controlled airspace I think you will need to claim Non-radio. Not that I imagine ATS can tell :D
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Re: LAA Permit 2018 8.33 Radio

Postby Brian Hope » Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:48 am

It is my understanding that the CAA is going to allow a small number of 25kHz frequencies to remain usable for an as yet unspecified period - 121.50 of course, plus maybe 135.475 (SafetyCom), the glider frequency etc. Only six or seven in total. That means having a 760 installed after Dec 2017 will remain perfectly legal.
The issue with handheld 8.33 is that CAA is now saying you cannot use it in ANY controlled airspace, and that is a change from what was first said. It was expected to be able to use them in Class D, very useful for getting a clearance through many regional bits of airspace like Bristol, Southend etc. Questions are being asked, they have changed the rules with no warning and no consultation.
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Re: LAA Permit 2018 8.33 Radio

Postby howell » Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:50 am

This 8.33 scam is descending into a complete farce what hope is there for the future of our hobby if we struggling pilots keep getting hit in the pocket by amongst others these idiot Euro Cretins.
We went through all the same thing with Mode S where is Mode S Now ?
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Re: LAA Permit 2018 8.33 Radio

Postby Nick Allen » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:11 pm

"The issue with handheld 8.33 is that CAA is now saying you cannot use it in ANY controlled airspace"

How will anyone know what you are using?
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Re: LAA Permit 2018 8.33 Radio

Postby Brian Hope » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:07 am

How will anyone know what you are using?


Of course that's true, and how are they going to police it. That's not the point though. For one there are many people who aren't prepared to deliberately break the law, and for two the CAA have arbitrarily excluded 8.33 handheld use in all controlled airspace when there is no need to. Very many people are using their current handhelds in controlled airspace and have been doing so for years; let's hope commonsense prevails.
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Re: LAA Permit 2018 8.33 Radio

Postby Chris Martyr » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:20 pm

Brian Hope wrote:
let's hope common sense prevails.

I am fairly sure that it will Brian . But how long will it take ? :D
Everything that the Euro-Meddlers do is aimed primarily at CAT. I'm sure that for many of the "Commissioner Kinnock" fraternity, the knowledge and awareness level regarding GA , ranges from between, 'frightfully low' to 'non-existent'. This was proved with the pilot licensing fiasco and the pilot medicals fiasco. For us as observer's , it was a bit like pulling teeth , but after a long and painful learning process , the penny is slowly starting to drop for the "Kinnocks" .

Prior to JAR and EASA , the world's two most respected aviation authorities were the FAA and Ours. From about 2000 onwards , the young, opinionated and overweight upstart has been trying to call the shots and has ended up with egg on his face every single time by having to call in the wiser bodies and minds for prompting and guidance.
The 8.33Khz drama is really to placate the airlines , who require extra frequencies for engineering, ops , pax services etc. Reducing the bandwidth from 25Khz to 8.33Khz in theory gives them a massive surplus of frequencies , probably far more than they can utilise,,,as has been pointed out before , the Yanks are still muddling through with "only 25Khz" bandwidth spacing and this is why I wonder whether it is quite over yet as far as us grass-roots flyers are concerned. There could be just one or two more little surprises and I am certainly not going to get bent out of shape as far as this saga is concerned .

As for taking my hand-held into CAS..........I'll try hard to resist that one. Even though in reality it is just a tad farcical.
Edited to add : Ironically , about an hour after writing this , LA mag drops through my door and I've just read Mike Mold's letter re ; 8.33Khz handhelds.
Surely all the CAA are doing with this rather daft restriction is just bringing about a similar situation that was there prior to them approving 8.33Khz handhelds nationally.
When they realised that all they were doing was encouraging a load of extra NORDO's , the penny dropped and the approval given.
So what happens with this one then , when the penny drops that people are either pussyfooting around Class D boundaries or "winging it ".
If the ATSU receives a loud and clear request for a transit clearance and a loud and clear read-back of instructions is given , then that's it isn't it ? End of !
As Brian points out , how on earth can they police this one. And why should we have to 'run the gauntlet'.
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Re: LAA Permit 2018 8.33 Radio

Postby Donald Walker » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:26 pm

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Re: LAA Permit 2018 8.33 Radio

Postby Donald Walker » Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:10 pm

It is interesting that the French have approved the Icom 8.33kHz handhelds for use in permit aircraft with the only limitation being for use below FL150 and at a maximun speed of 300 Km/h.
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Re: LAA Permit 2018 8.33 Radio

Postby Seanjd » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:10 pm

Don't forget that you will be able to claim 20% refund once the CAA get the claim form sorted.

If you leave it until end of 2017 the 'pot of gold' maybe gone!

The update and release of LA301075 by the CAA, without any consultation, is a joke :roll:
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Re: LAA Permit 2018 8.33 Radio

Postby Brian Hope » Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:38 pm

Good news from the CAA today and well done them for sorting this issue out very quickly.

In the recent update of the LA3 equipment approval for 8.33KHz capable radios the changes inadvertently removed the ability to use these devices in class D airspace. This was not the intention and so we have made an update to re-instate the permission. The latest LA301075 approval certificate is now on the CAA website at http://www.caa.co.uk/WorkArea/DownloadA ... 4294978578.
We apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused for this short period.
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Re: LAA Permit 2018 8.33 Radio

Postby MikeM » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:12 pm

Thanks to LAA HQ for raising this and praise where due to the CAA for redressing the mistake so promptly.
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Re: LAA Permit 2018 8.33 Radio

Postby Seanjd » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:36 pm

Good old Human Factors :lol:

Hope they identified Root Cause to prevent a reoccurence :lol:
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