EU regs similar to SSDR (?) 85kgs?

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EU regs similar to SSDR (?) 85kgs?

Postby bencollins » Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:38 pm

Image
Hello folks,

After a year of evenings I have completed an SSDR design in CAD but after some number crunching now realise the volume cannot economically justify start up production on the UK market alone.Image

Does anybody know (or have links) to the European regulations regarding ultralights, especially deregulated? Heard somewhere about an 85kg limit (and there's me thinking 115kg was tricky) but cannot find any links. Help would be appreciated.Image
Or even US regulations.

Thank you in advance, Ben
Image
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Re: EU regs similar to SSDR (?) 85kgs?

Postby Ian Melville » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:03 pm

FAR-103 in the US is close to SSDR(254lb), but speed limited. Germany there is LTF-UL2003 for sub 120KG. But there are differences as I believe the German class is not fully deregulated.

Don't know about other countries, but wouldn't hold out much hope unless they are fully under the radar.
US regs here
http://www.ultralighthomepage.com/FAR.part103.html

Cannot find the German ones at the moment but think someone did post them on the BMAA forum. IIRC it came out after SSDR, so is a new market.
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Re: EU regs similar to SSDR (?) 85kgs?

Postby Ian Melville » Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:55 pm

I think this is the German document http://www.dulv.de/Downloads/Zulassungen-/-Technik/K172.htmLTF-L%203%20applicability
part of the general spec Bing translates as .....
(a) this provision contains the minimum - air airworthiness requirements for the sample test of non-motorized or motorized air equipment, the following conditions
meet:
not motorized:
(1) not more than 2 seats
(2) a multi-material of no more than 80 kg in the single-seater version and 100 kg in the two-seated version

motorized:
(3) Internal combustion engine
(4) single
(5) a maximum take-off weight of 260 kg
(6) a maximum wing loading of 25 kg / m²
(7) a maximum fuel capacity of 25 litres
(8) a multi-material of not more than 100 kg

Applies for non-motorized and motorized air equipment:
(9) The limit of the multi-material is satisfied if the authorised weight with all instruments, equipment, fixtures and fittings and rescue system 120 kg not exceeds.
(10) A computational minimum speed at maximum permissible Flugmasse in landing of not more than 55 km/h.
(b) who in accordance with the above provisions apply for model test or change the pattern test of air sports equipment is, must the detection provide that this air airworthiness requirements - if applicable - have been met.
(c) was in another Member State of the European communities, a Contracting State of the agreement on the EEA or in Turkey of compliance with the on air equipment applicable air airworthiness requirements already legally proven,.so, the certification of this document of the sample test is equivalent to. Only for obvious defects on the air equipment, providing its airworthiness in question,.can the competent authority request to additional evidence.

I thin Multi-material should be structural mass :?:
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Re: EU regs similar to SSDR (?) 85kgs?

Postby bencollins » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:00 pm

Cheers Ian, ImageThose links are very much appreciated.
Moving house this weekend, but holiday after that, when I'll have a look.
If there's any cherry picked info I can contribute to your list ill add it on this thread in three weeks.
Image
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Re: EU regs similar to SSDR (?) 85kgs?

Postby John Riley » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:45 am

Ian, The German regs are clear on recovery systems and empty weight, 'fixtures and fittings and rescue system 120 kg not exceeds' our regs are a little light on the the subject of BRS or hand deployed recovery systems. The argument for recovery systems and weight has been discussed in the microlight world for years, I wish SSDR was clearer.
I am not knocking the guys who got the SSDR through, they did a great job, I prefer our regs over the German ones in general.
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Re: EU regs similar to SSDR (?) 85kgs?

Postby Ian Melville » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:33 pm

Thanks John, I had picked that up. IIRC all Microlights must have BRS in Germany, so it is not surprising that this class also requires one.

Yes I prefer our rules as well, but would have liked to see an extra allowance for BRS.
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Re: EU regs similar to SSDR (?) 85kgs?

Postby Roger Camp » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:31 am

Also the German regs reuire in addition to the BRS, that the AC in question has an Inspection instead of the type certification. Also the DULV dont want anything to do with the 120 kg class and wont provide inspectors either. You deal direct with the LBA.
It takes 1974 bolts to build an aircraft and 1 nut to spread it over the landscape
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Re: EU regs similar to SSDR (?) 85kgs?

Postby bencollins » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:33 pm

Right! Summer is over and the house move is complete and I have finally translated and read the big German document and the other two associated docs.
Seems like a lot of tests need to be performed, for example three recovery parachute tests all filmed.
Thats pretty much certification and not economically viable.
However generally the spec is very helpful as a guide for the aircraft, for example control weighting etc.
I think the way forward is to build the aircraft to match these criteria and go for all the tesing a bit further down the line.
What other markets and rules are out there, e.g. australia etc?
PS I have word copies of the translations available to anyone interested (attached to this post hopefully) - of course google translate + german verb structure leads to Yoda sentence structure, but other than that it seems quite acceptable.
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Re: EU regs similar to SSDR (?) 85kgs?

Postby bencollins » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:35 pm

try the attachment again, the 2 small ones first in case it was too large
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Re: EU regs similar to SSDR (?) 85kgs?

Postby bencollins » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:38 pm

another fail! ill try one attachment at a time!
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Re: EU regs similar to SSDR (?) 85kgs?

Postby bencollins » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:39 pm

ahah i seem not to be able to attach word files (even under 2Mb) or im blind or something :oops: :shock: :D
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Re: EU regs similar to SSDR (?) 85kgs?

Postby John Dean » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:48 pm

Sorry Ben but you can't attach a document to a post on the forums. The document has to be hosted somewhere on the internet and then you can refer to it by using the URL button above the reply box.

For example http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/pdf/Engineering/Permit%20renewal%20form%20website%20doc.pdf

Looks like the following when you type it:-

[url ]http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/pdf/Engineering/Permit%20renewal%20form%20website%20doc.pdf[/url]
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Re: EU regs similar to SSDR (?) 85kgs?

Postby bencollins » Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:49 am

ahah no problem, if anyone wants a copy of my google translate efforts, drop me a pm.
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Re: EU regs similar to SSDR (?) 85kgs?

Postby bencollins » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:49 am

Hello,

Have now decided to start up the aircraft manufacturing company discussed above.
Looking for expertise to get involved on a part time basis, four weekends a year, an ongoing forum to make points and a monthly webinar. The project will be fun but not overbearing.
Will be presenting the concept confidentially at Duxford 7th Dec, so if anyone out there has ever fancied helping to define a aircraft, please get involved. More info on the website www.navigaero.com
You can meet me and have a chat about the project this coming weekend at www.flyingshow.co.uk
Otherwise just read the website, see if you want to consider it further, and email me.
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